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Self Entitlement Syndrome
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Post by
hashmel
Too often i come across or overhear people with this idea that they're somehow entitled to something be it a specific drop, a genre of gear, or profession byproducts.
Since the looting system mostly solves the first two I'm here to post my two and a half cents about the latter.
I'm constantly seeing and hearing about crafters that believe because they leveled the profession that anything related to it is theirs by default.
This phenomenon of automatic profession-related self-entitlement is almost entirely rooted around enchanters and alchemists.
Alchemists believe their entitlement is based on anything related to a mastery proc while enchanters' entitlement lies in group loot.
If a scribe mills herbs for you they don't keep the rare inks
If a rogue picks a lock for you they don't ask to see what's inside and call dibs
If a jewelcrafter crafts some
uncommen gems
for you they don't get dibs on any
gem perfection
procs
If a jewelcrafter prospects ore for you they don't keep any rare gems
And if a jewelcrafter crafts an icy prism with your mats and tip you don't expect them to take a peak and keep any dragon's eyes that're in it
I don't know what it is with alchemists and enchanters that gives them that sense of self-entitlement, alchemists think other peoples' goods belong to them and enchanters attempting to claim anything shiny that drops for a group then trying to auction it off to them or run off with it.
We
ALL
work for our professions, we
ALL
invested a large amount into leveling them, as for chanters we
ALL
killed the mob that just dropped the professor plum and as such we
ALL
have an equal claim to it, if a chanter wants to claim everything for themselves then they can do everything by themselves.
If someone brings the mats and pays for the cooldown/service then they're entitled to any procs or rare items as them purchasing and supplying mats for your cooldown effectively strips all claim you have to said cooldown.
However
, it is
ALWAYS
both polite on the customer's part and expected on the salesman's part for the tip to show some net increase upon such an event.
Post by
126061
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
GravenTerenas
Can't say I've experienced this problem of all enchanters running off with the mats. Yes it has happened once or twice in PUGs, but I just put that person on my never-to-group-with-again list and move on. The majority, though, seem to have no problem with divvying up the mats after the run. Bit of a gross generalisation to imply that everyone with that profession is a thief/ninja.
Post by
hashmel
edit2: and before you start flaming: the reason for this is, the enchanter had to lvl enchanting, but that doesn't mean he's automaticaly entitled to all drops
Lol, While I'm honored to be mistaken for the usual internet jockey who believes the world wide web is his podium from which he dishes out terribly rude, misspelled, grammatically incoherent thoughts I'm afraid I'm too polite a person for that. =P
In regards to the party/raid loot and chanters seeing as shards are much more valuable than the vendor price of the item anything unwanted is surely DE worthy but everyone there has an equal claim to the product of the DE within the looting rules. (ie 1 loot per boss/wing/as much as you can win etc)
But unless everyone decides to afk while the chanter solos a mob, that mob drops an item, and the chanter proceeds to disenchant the item from the mob he soloed he has no more of a right to it than anyone else.
Edit: Never meant to imply all chanters or alchs had this sense of self worth just that when it does occur it's most often among these groups.
Post by
Patty
As an enchanter myself, I roll on shards and D/E them if no one else rolls. When other people greed, I keep the shard for myself.
However, sometimes in Heroics when I am handing out shards according to rolls, I get quite annoyed at the fact that there aren't many other ways of me getting crystals or shards other than Heroics, and sometimes due to this generosity have to buy Enchanting mats myself on some occasions. You don't see these problems as much with other professions, in my experience.
Post by
TheChilliGod
If a rogue picks a lock for you they don't ask to see what's inside and call dibs
...I do. :(
Post by
GravenTerenas
However, sometimes in Heroics when I am handing out shards according to rolls, I get quite annoyed at the fact that there aren't many other ways of me getting crystals or shards other than Heroics, and sometimes due to this generosity have to buy Enchanting mats myself on some occasions. You don't see these problems as much with other professions, in my experience.
No offense, but dividing the mats fairly among the people who earned them is not exactly "generosity" is it? Ok, so you don't get enough Abyss crystals from running heroics to meet your needs, and have to supplement with AH purchases. This is just the way it goes, and is also the case for every other crafting profession (bar alchemy) with frozen orbs.
Post by
337173
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
337173
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hashmel
The self entitlement is still the same, the issue that you do in fact have to run dungeons for mats doesn't really matter since just like any other prof most of your leveling comes from crafting in trade.
A miner can find some ore in a dungeon but a blacksmith/engineer/jewelcrafter that doesn't mine isn't going to walk over to them and say the ore should go to them because they're the only one able to craft something out of it.
Same with a skinner and a leatherworker, same with an herbalist and an alchemist/scribe, and same with a party/raid and a chanter.
Out of gratitude for having a chanter in the group able to increase the value of unwanted loot for the entire party i do give them a couple gold whenever they trade me a shard I've won but they have no more of a claim than the rest.
now if the chanter asks if they may partake in some shards for their profession then i'll gladly pass (unless i got some new gear needing chants =P)
Post by
GravenTerenas
No offense, but dividing the mats fairly among the people who earned them is not exactly "generosity" is it? Ok, so you don't get enough Abyss crystals from running heroics to meet your needs, and have to supplement with AH purchases. This is just the way it goes, and is also the case for every other crafting profession (bar alchemy) with frozen orbs.
Yes it is generosity if no else NEEDS it. You can farm frozen orbs and pretty much everything else you need with other profs. But not with chanting..
How do you figure this? Frozen orbs *only* drop from heroic bosses. If anything, they are harder to get than abyss crystals, not easier.
*edit* Seems I was wrong to defend the majority in my first reply. The sense of self-entitlement does indeed seem to be pretty strong in those enchanters who have posted here. :p
Post by
337173
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
337173
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
GravenTerenas
Ok yea my bad on the frozen orb thing, I forgot they could be bought with badges.
The point about the enchanting mats is still the same though. It's an old argument, which boggles me that people still argue over. The whole group earned the drop, why should one person be entitled to get all the benefit of that? If you don't want to disenchant for your group then don't, just greed roll with the rest and if you win, it's yours to do what you want with.
Post by
hashmel
If some crazy cloth dropped in an instance or even just world questing and there was a Tailor in the group, I would let them have it no questions asked. But even tailors can just go solo grind for mats chanters CAN'T.
Pretty sure just about every quest from the dawn of time awards you with not only gold to buy mats like everyone else but also with gear that you'll most likely DE. You get to farm mats without having to directly farm mats...must be nice having questgivers be all "Hey i was going to give you some gold and vendor crap but since you're a chanter here's some gold and useful mats for your prof instead."
And those other profs use miscellaneous mats as well like BS using leather sometimes, leather using ore sometimes, even the occasional dust so even with their farming prof which is a pain in the ass at times being forced into taking 2 for the price of 1 due to funds and still having to rely on a 3rd or 4th at times.
So while we stop running progression tasks such as questing, running dungeons, or leveling you get to go about your business leveling up, running dungeons for upgrades, killing lvl 2 kobalts if you like, and still getting mats for your profession.
Post by
Raleandris
The point about the enchanting mats is still the same though. It's an old argument, which boggles me that people still argue over.
The whole group earned the drop, why should one person be entitled to get all the benefit of that?
If you don't want to disenchant for your group then don't, just greed roll with the rest and if you win, it's yours to do what you want with.
Because only one person in the group actually bothered to take the time to level their profession, spending their gold and other resources in the process. Sure, it's great if an enchanter will DE and raid-roll shards, more power to them. This also applies to Alchemy masteries. When you hire an alchemist to say make 10 Flasks of Endless Rage, you give him the mats to make just that: 10 Flasks of Endless Rage. Any extras are a benefit to
levelling his profession the way he did
.
Note that this is different from getting a JC to prospect Ore for you, or a Scribe to mill herbs for you. When you get someone to do this for you, you give them a stack of mats,
not knowing what you're going to get
. There's no guarantee you'll even get anything worthwhile out of your stack of Saronite Ore or Lichbloom, so it's entirely reasonable to expect you get everything from that stack of mats.
Long story short, I'm still going to charge extra from my Elixir procs, and if the person doesn't want to pay, then that's too bad. If you aren't sure about stuff like that, talk to the crafter first, and work out something.
Post by
hashmel
It's still the same, when you prospect there's a chance to get certain things and to an extent you know what those things will be. when an alch does an xmute or makes a pot/flask there's a chance to get an added effect, you don't know to what extent but you know what it is.
Prospecting is chance to get X through Y, X being any sort of uncommon and Y being any sort of rare gem, can also get varying numbers of gems.
Alch is a chance to get X through Y, X being the crafted item in its specified quantity and Y being the crafted item in an increased quantity
So why should alch get to keep theirs because the customer can't predict how many they'll get while the prospecting customer not only can't predict how many but can't even predict what they'll get?
I bet you'd find it wrongful for a JC to keep any rare gems they prospect for you saying
"Well you don't know how many or what you'll get but you can guess you'll get at least 1 uncommon gem for every prospect so that's all i'll gave you back from your mats."
That's what alchs seem to think of their procs
"Well you don't know how many but you can guess at least the minimum so that's all i'll give you back from your mats."
As I've said above I don't give you a tip for the service, rather I buy the service stripping you of claim to it and if anything beyond the original expectation occurs then I leave a tip but the original payment and my own mats are to stake claim to anything resulting from the act of using those mats.
Post by
Raleandris
It's still the same, when you prospect there's a chance to get certain things and to an extent you know what those things will be. when an alch does an xmute or makes a pot/flask there's a chance to get an added effect, you don't know to what extent but you know what it is.
Prospecting is chance to get X through Y, X being any sort of uncommon and Y being any sort of rare gem, can also get varying numbers of gems.
Alch is a chance to get X through Y, X being the crafted item in its specified qantity and Y being the crafted item in an increased quantity
So why should alch get to keep theirs because the customer can't predict how many they'll get while the prospecting customer not only can't predict how many but can't even predict what they'll get?
I bet you'd find it wrongful for a JC to keep any rare gems they prospect for you saying
"Well you don't know how many or what you'll get but you can guess you'll get 1 green gem for every prospect so that's all i gave you back from your mats."
That's what alchs seem to think of their procs
"Well you don't know how many but you can guess at least the minimum so that's all i'll give you back from your mats."
As I've said above I don't give you a tip for the service, rather I buy the service stripping you of claim to it and if anything beyond the original expectation occurs then I leave a tip but the original payment and my own mats are to stake claim to anything resulting from the act of using those mats.
You're not adding anything new to this argument. Nor shall I.
Post by
21327
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
418242
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